Written by: Xu Chen Steven
In episode 71 of "Tokenized," Simon Taylor, responsible for GTM (Go-to-Market Strategy) at Tempo; Cuy Sheffield, Head of Crypto at Visa; Omnia founder and CEO Davis Hart; and Robert Morgan, Head of Stablecoins at Payoneer, discuss:
- Payoneer’s partnership with Bridge
- Why stablecoin companies are applying for federal trust bank charters
- And more related topics
Takeaways:
Payoneer’s integration of stablecoins is not a marketing stunt but an upgrade to its existing cross-border payment network. Stablecoins are seen as an enhanced settlement layer, not a replacement for the current fiat system.
The core value of stablecoins isn’t “on-chain transfers,” but their seamless interoperability with fiat systems, including compliant inflows and outflows, liquidity conversion, and local payment integration.
Currently, enterprise demand for stablecoins falls into two categories: one that directly interacts with stablecoins and needs safer, compliant exchange pathways; another that doesn’t want to hold stablecoins but wants to use them as a more efficient backend settlement tool.
The entry of mature licensed institutions marks stablecoins’ move into mainstream finance, shifting industry focus from crypto-native innovation to embedded infrastructure integration.
Tokenized deposits and stablecoins are not mutually exclusive; the former is more suitable for internal banking networks, while the latter is better for cross-network liquidity. Both may coexist long-term.
The “outflow of deposits” risk may be overestimated. Stablecoins reduce liquidity friction, which can lead to liquidity concentration rather than simple fund migration.
On-chain lending is viewed as a more structurally impactful direction than stablecoin payments. Programmable lending infrastructure could reshape bank balance sheets and capital markets.
Over the past few years, hundreds of billions of dollars in stablecoin loans have been issued on-chain. While currently mainly collateralized by crypto assets, infrastructure feasibility has been validated, laying the groundwork for on-chain real-world assets.
Simon Taylor (Host): If I were a bank’s head of crypto or digital assets, I might spend 95% of my time on on-chain lending. I believe this will have a profound long-term impact on the banking ecosystem.
Stablecoin payments, remittances, B2B transactions are all good and worth pursuing. But the entire infrastructure supporting lending is being rebuilt into a more automated, programmable system. If your core business is lending, this is a dream. How could you not be excited?
If you understand how it works, how to connect, and how to manage compliance—though many questions remain—I believe our industry will get there. We’re also doing our part at Visa, supporting clients. We’ve spent a lot of time communicating with them to help them understand what all this means.
Welcome to Tokenized, a show focused on stablecoins and institutional adoption of tokenized real-world assets. I’m your host today, Simon Taylor, author of Fintech Brain Food and Head of Market Development at Tempo. With me is Mr. Cuy Sheffield. How have you been lately? Still doing well at Visa’s crypto division?
Cuy Sheffield: Very well. It’s been an interesting week. After the last episode, I received many “lobster” messages (jokingly referring to many people reaching out). A lot of people contacted me. There have been many fascinating conversations.
We’re working on a new Labs concept project. Many developers and job applicants are reaching out to Visa. It’s very exciting. People are genuinely interested in this space.
Simon Taylor: Welcome back, Davis Hart, now founder and CEO of Omnia. Since you last appeared, you’ve taken on a new title and started a new company. Davis, what does your new company do?
Davis Hart (Founder & CEO of Omnia): The new company provides stablecoin infrastructure for banks. A few years ago, I tried to get a banking license. Having worked in stablecoins and payments for many years, I saw a clear market gap. As regulations become clearer by 2025, I’m more convinced that banks need help building this infrastructure. That’s what we’re doing now.
Simon Taylor: Also joining us for the first time is Rob Morgan, Head of Stablecoins at Payoneer. Rob, how are you?
Rob Morgan (Head of Stablecoins at Payoneer): Very well, thank you for the invitation, Simon. Glad to be here.
Simon Taylor: Before we start, I want to remind viewers and listeners that all opinions expressed today are personal and do not necessarily reflect their companies’ positions. Also, don’t take anything we say as tax, legal, or investment advice. Let’s dive into the first topic.
Rob, this should be familiar. Payoneer’s partnership with Bridge to launch stablecoin payout capabilities. I can read a summary, but why don’t you tell us directly—what is Payoneer doing? Why stablecoins?
Rob Morgan: Thanks, Simon. We see stablecoins as an important part of the future of cross-border fund flows. Over the past few years, stablecoins have evolved from interesting but somewhat disconnected use cases to solutions used by real businesses to solve real problems. More importantly, our market clients are starting to have genuine needs—they want faster, cheaper, more efficient access to funds using stablecoins.
For those unfamiliar with Payoneer, we’re a global cross-border payments company serving SMBs worldwide. These businesses operate across five or six jurisdictions, need to receive payments in one country, manage balances globally, and pay others internationally. In a way, Payoneer itself is like an early “stablecoin”: we receive funds, create liabilities, and deliver funds globally.
Our partnership with Bridge enables clients to use stablecoins as a payment rail—receiving funds in all their markets, holding stablecoins, and paying out to recipients worldwide.
For us, stablecoins aren’t replacing existing business but enhancing our global network capabilities. Interoperability between stablecoins and fiat payment rails is what clients truly want and what will create real-world utility in the future.
Cuy Sheffield: I like this example. Payoneer is an established payout company, with many years in the space, serving creator platforms, marketplace sellers, freelancers. Your entire business revolves around how to get money to contractors, freelancers, and sellers.
In recent years, stablecoins have become an important payout use case. Many say stablecoins are mainly for cross-border payouts—faster, cheaper payments to influencers or contractors. New companies have emerged claiming to be “stablecoin payout providers.”
But now we’re entering a new phase—regulatory clarity is emerging. Mature companies with licenses, distribution channels, and trusted relationships can integrate stablecoin infrastructure to strengthen their existing capabilities.
That’s the real exciting competition. New entrants are trying to build new networks, while established payment companies say: “Wait, we already have licenses, integrations, and partnerships—we just need to add stablecoin capabilities.”
That’s good for the industry. And if you’re doing payouts, you also need to consider what happens after clients receive funds. Card networks will also have opportunities. How will clients spend stablecoins? That’s a growing field.
Rob Morgan: Inflows and outflows are indeed critical. Stablecoins have promised to simplify cross-border payments. A cross-border business moving funds from one country to another might need five or six banks, two payment networks, and dedicated staff managing global liquidity.
Stablecoins promise to make all this simpler. But even today, that promise isn’t fully realized unless they can seamlessly integrate into existing business operations. Cuy can send you stablecoins instantly and for free, but you can’t buy coffee on the street with them, or a hammer, or anything you need for your business.
The real driver of the next wave of adoption is interoperability between stablecoins and fiat systems, and the ability to handle inflows and outflows.
Simon Taylor (Host): There’s also another related news item this week about Bridge. Bridge received conditional approval to establish a “National Trust Charter Bank.” This is clearly just the first step—there will be organizational phases, mock inspections, and formal reviews ahead.
Davis, I know you’ve tried similar paths before. Can you talk about why stablecoin companies are applying for trust charters? What does that license give them? What’s the overall process?
Davis Hart (Founder & CEO of Omnia): From a macro perspective, most companies applying for these licenses are crypto firms or stablecoin issuers.
The first reason is regulatory structure. Many already hold money transfer licenses (MTL) in 50 states. So why apply for a trust charter? Because of “federal preemption.” Once you get a federal license, you don’t need to maintain MTL licenses in all 50 states. It simplifies regulation significantly—you’re dealing with one regulator instead of fifty.
The second reason is future stablecoin legislation expectations. Many believe that a trust bank structure could become the best way to issue stablecoins under the GENIUS Act framework. Getting a license now from an agency that might oversee stablecoins in the future is like pre-embedding a regulatory pathway—preparing for future issuance activities.
Simon Taylor: That leads to another topic. This week, there’s news that five regional banks are developing their own “tokenized deposit networks,” planning to launch in Q4. These include Huntington Bank, First Horizon, M&T Bank, among others. They’re building infrastructure on a network called Kina Network, led by former OCC Director Eugene Ludwig.
They plan to release an MVP by end of March, run pilots in Q3, and go live in Q4. The core idea is “tokenized deposits”—representing bank deposits as digital tokens. The banks say this is to protect deposit bases.
Davis, what’s your take? Are tokenized deposits a defensive tool for banks? Are stablecoins a threat or an opportunity for banks?
Davis Hart: I believe that in the next decade, all sustainable banks will have two versions of their balance sheets: a traditional one and a fully tokenized one. There will be tokenized loans, currency, deposits, bonds. In this framework, tokenized deposits and stablecoins are both reasonable. Tokenized deposits have unique value within existing bank networks, while stablecoins are more useful across networks.
Many worry about “deposit outflows,” but I think that concern is exaggerated. The average yield on US savings accounts is only 39 basis points, yet the market offers products at 3.25%. This shows depositors won’t move their funds just because yields change slightly.
Stablecoins mainly reduce friction. When friction drops, liquidity may concentrate. If I can easily move money between accounts, I might bring idle funds from PayPal, Coinbase, etc., back into my main account. So both forms will coexist.
Cuy Sheffield: I think the concept of “tokenized deposit networks” is very important. Over the past two years, tokenized deposits have often been discussed at the level of individual banks. If each bank builds its own tokenized deposit system, it’s limited. But if there’s a network structure, standardization, and interoperability involving multiple banks, it becomes very interesting.
The key is interoperability. If I have tokenized deposits at one bank, how do I send them to another? If everyone acts independently, it’s difficult.
Davis Hart: Exactly. Interoperability is crucial. I spent three years trying to build a tokenized deposit network for small and midsize banks through the USDF Alliance. The challenge is always: how to connect with big banks like JPMD? If someone can push this forward, Eugene Ludwig might be the right person.
But I’m more interested in what real problems these banks aim to solve with tokenized deposits. Domestic payments are already cheap with FedNow and RTP. The real excitement is when tokenized deposits combine with tokenized loans for multi-party settlement scenarios.
Simon Taylor: That’s a network effect issue. Five banks are just a start, with limited scale. Large banks might have enough network effects to build their own systems, while small banks may want to join alliances. Governance is also a question—who controls minting and burning? How to manage inflows and outflows? I see tokenized deposits as “static money,” while stablecoins are “money in motion.”
Davis Hart: Tokenized deposits are still in early exploration, similar to the stablecoin phase in 2020.
Simon Taylor: Next, let’s discuss the partnership between Apollo and Morpho. Major asset managers are delving into DeFi.
Rob Morgan: Regardless of partnership details, what excites me is that traditional institutions are starting to consider how to leverage blockchain for more efficient real-world lending.
If I were a bank, I’d focus more on reducing financing costs and expanding capital sources through on-chain loans, rather than worrying about deposit replacement. Banking fundamentally involves payments, deposits, and loans. We spend a lot of time on the first two, but very little on on-chain lending. If loans can be on-chain, connecting new capital pools, it could reshape capital markets.
Cuy Sheffield: Over the past five years, on-chain stablecoin loans have exceeded $600 billion. Most are collateralized by crypto assets, but this infrastructure proves feasible. Future collateral could include tokenized government bonds, fiat stablecoins, receivables, and more.
If I were a bank’s digital assets head, I’d spend 95% of my time on on-chain lending. Payments and remittances are important, but the programmable infrastructure for lending is a systemic transformation. If your core is lending, this is a dream.
Of course, compliance and risk are concerns, but the industry will gradually address them. We at Visa dedicate significant time helping clients understand this.
Davis Hart: For community banks, this is an opportunity. They understand local markets and excel at credit assessment. If they can leverage on-chain infrastructure for cheaper funding, they can better support local businesses. No need to overly worry about deposit outflows—focus on lending opportunities.
Simon Taylor: Shifting to wallets and AI. Phantom Wallet launched MCP Server, enabling AI agents to sign and manage addresses on supported chains.
Davis Hart: A key moment for AI and stablecoins is Cloudflare’s proposal that AI crawlers need to pay for content. This is a perfect scenario for high-frequency micro-payments. Phantom’s progress simply adds more pathways for automation.
Rob Morgan: Control mechanisms are key. Don’t give AI full credit card permissions—use limited wallets. Transactions can be audited. In the future, “agent SMBs” might emerge, with stablecoins as their native payment language.
Cuy Sheffield: MCP can be seen as “native applications.” Wallets used to be mobile apps; now they might be plugins within AI environments. The question is: will the winners of the mobile wallet era also win in the MCP wallet era? And it’s not just about stablecoins. Business payments require widely accepted payment methods, like card networks. We’re exploring how to securely integrate card payments in AI environments.
Simon Taylor: AI development is exponential. R&D must be done early, with security architectures in place. Toward the end of the show, a few news items not discussed in detail: Dragonfly raised $650 million; Base left OP Stack; Robinhood Layer 2 testnet; Kraken acquired Magna; Hyperliquid established a policy advocacy organization.
Our time is almost up. Thanks to everyone watching and listening, and special thanks to today’s guests. Davis, if people want to learn more about you and Omnia, where should they go?
Davis Hart (Founder & CEO of Omnia): Our website is omnia.financial. You can also find me on LinkedIn, where I publish a biweekly newsletter called The Stablecoin Banker. If you want to dive deeper into the intersection of banking and stablecoins, that’s a good resource.
Simon Taylor: Highly recommended. The Stablecoin Banker is excellent. I read every issue and share it widely. Thanks for writing it.
Cuy Sheffield: Completely agree.
Simon Taylor: Looks like I have a competitor. Rob, if people want to learn more about you and Payoneer?
Rob Morgan (Head of Stablecoins at Payoneer): Visit payoneer.com. We’re currently opening a waitlist and gradually onboarding clients. More updates are coming soon, stay tuned.
Simon Taylor: Cuy, can we find you on X (formerly Twitter)?
Cuy Sheffield: Yes, @CuySheffield (still using the old handle mentioned in the show), and visa.com/crypto.
Simon Taylor: You can find me at fintechbrainfood.com, or visit tempo.xyz, or on major social platforms @Sytaylor. If you enjoy this show, please subscribe, like, and share with your friends. We really appreciate it. Feel free to “blast” the recommendation—you have my permission. Take care, everyone.
